flan327
No Life At All
Third Strike..Banned
100%
Posts: 7,410
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Post by flan327 on Jul 8, 2020 15:51:59 GMT -6
You seem to accuse others of "putting words in your mouth" quite a bit. Perhaps you have trouble communicating clearly? Nope...Only a few random posters who seem to be proud of their willfull ignorance. flan
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Post by heregoes on Jul 8, 2020 16:06:58 GMT -6
Some children have terrible home lives. And, teachers in person teachers are often that first line of defense to detect and find child abuse. Many kids are not getting meals. So, kids are home not being fed. So I think there is great potential harm in not going back as well. Yes, what you say is true. Plans for reopening schools have to consider the demographics of each district including how many student live in multi-generational homes, whether current programs to feed students in need are eating goals, whether instances of child abuse are increasing, the ages of teachers and staff, amongst a multitude of other things.
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Post by riotgirl on Jul 8, 2020 16:15:49 GMT -6
This also may be very hard on special needs students for whom online learning is not a good option. There is a lot of carnage all around. And, yes, we need to do things safely. But, keeping schools closed has ramifications. There have been student suicides and other issues for their loss of social interaction, not to mention all the social issues that teachers on the front lines often address.
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Post by menantol on Jul 8, 2020 16:43:01 GMT -6
This also may be very hard on special needs students for whom online learning is not a good option. There is a lot of carnage all around. And, yes, we need to do things safely. But, keeping schools closed has ramifications. There have been student suicides and other issues for their loss of social interaction, not to mention all the social issues that teachers on the front lines often address. Those are all good points. We have a lot of very smart people in our school systems, I suspect that they will develop methods of handling this situation.
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Post by Capt. Kangaroo on Jul 8, 2020 22:56:19 GMT -6
This is another one of those circumstances where the US and individual states have every opportunity to learn from countries who are further along in the epidemic, particularly those who have had success in managing both the disease and the economic impact. On that basis, there is every chance that the US will squander it.
The arguments for opening schools roughly consist of:
There is no evidence to suggest that children are significantly at risk from the virus. There is little evidence to suggest that children catch the virus and spread it to others. There is significant evidence that schools are a positive factor, particularly for the most vulnerable children. At a basic level, schools provide a childcare function that allows for wider reopening of economies.
In many cases, and I can't believe that I am about to even slightly agree with SK, the closing of schools provided a sense of comfort. It was in some cases an emotional decision. University College London conducted a study into the evidence base behind closing schools and concluded that:
The UCL-led survey concludes that the evidence to support the closure of schools to combat Covid-19 is “very weak”, and statistics from influenza outbreaks suggest school closures “could have relatively small effects on a virus with Covid-19’s high transmissibility and apparent low clinical effect on schoolchildren”.
The study also concluded that the very small benefits of closing schools is only fully realised when other social isolation measures are adhered to. Given that the US has essentially said "fuck you" to social isolation measures, there isn't any scientific basis to keep schools closed.
Likewise, the president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, said the benefit gained from closing schools had to be weighed against the costs. “Children’s education is damaged and their mental health may suffer, family finances are affected, key workers may need to stay home to look after children and vulnerable children may suffer most.”
I think therefore that the focus shouldn't be on if schools should be closed or where closed reopened, but how to do so safely. We closed schools here. We did so largely as a result of political pressure, in part from teachers unions and we did so despite the UK government's scientific advisors stating that there is little benefit to doing so.
In the UK, five children have died from COVID-19. Five. Out of nearly 45,000 deaths, 44,995 of them weren't children.
Aside from the obvious educational benefits, riotgirl is quite correct when she states that things like child abuse, domestic violence, exploitation of children and other urgent issues are often picked up at school. Where those issues are picked up elsewhere, schools are at the front line in putting things back together again.
On the basis of there being little evidence of the benefits of closing schools, and significant evidence in favour of them being open, certainly my thoughts are that they should reopen, with guidance and procedures in place to ensure appropriate infection control, and PPE provided for staff where contact with a child, and particular any fluids excreted by that child is unavoidable. Things like enhanced cleaning regimes, smaller classes, and keeping groups of children in the same "bubble" are all measures that can be taken to minimise risk.
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Post by griobhtha on Jul 9, 2020 8:30:26 GMT -6
IMO they need to let each school district decide when to reopen. In my County, the virus is at a dangerous level, according to our health department. We start school in August, not in September. They need to wait until the curve goes down in their area, as opening now, during a spike, doesn't make sense.
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Post by Capt. Kangaroo on Jul 9, 2020 11:56:10 GMT -6
IMO they need to let each school district decide when to reopen. In my County, the virus is at a dangerous level, according to our health department. We start school in August, not in September. They need to wait until the curve goes down in their area, as opening now, during a spike, doesn't make sense. If I have a concern relative to the reopening of schools it is that it sends a message that social distancing measures elsewhere are not necessary. The argument becomes "I can go to school with 30 of my closest friends but not visit those same friends in their homes or hang out with them at a youth club."
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Post by Capt. Kangaroo on Jul 9, 2020 23:13:55 GMT -6
IMO they need to let each school district decide when to reopen. In my County, the virus is at a dangerous level, according to our health department. We start school in August, not in September. They need to wait until the curve goes down in their area, as opening now, during a spike, doesn't make sense. Ultimately here the headteacher is a little like the captain of a ship, they manage their schools as they see fit and can only be ordered to open by an act of parliament. The board of governors could remove the head for failing to do so, but they cannot in most cases direct him or her to do so. I heard the virus being referred to as the "great revealer" the other day. One revelation is that it's been much easier for middle class parents during the pandemic, with laptops and larger houses and fast broadband connections. Not just in terms of education but with the lockdowns in general. A working class family living in a flat in the UK will have less space to educate a child, less access to outdoor spaces for the child to play in and enjoy fresh air, less access to broadband connections and less access to and comfort with the technology that allows kids to be educated at home. That applies to other people beyond parents. The poorer you are, the less likely you are to be able to sit in your house working from home, the less likely you are to be able to enjoy fresh air, the less likely you are to be able to order food and supplies online, the less likely you are to be able to afford masks and hand sanitiser, the more likely you are to need to use public transport and the more likely you are to work in a place where contact with others is harder to avoid. I had about a month of having to go to work, and it worried me. I had no choice. If I had a job where there were loads of other people milling about, no garden to relax in on a nice day, no car and a gaggle of kids to deal with, I can see how that might cause issues with a person's mental health. If, like many poorer families I also had an elderly relative living with me, and kids home from school with no end in sight, I could see how that might cause long term damage.
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Post by griobhtha on Jul 10, 2020 2:36:23 GMT -6
IMO they need to let each school district decide when to reopen. In my County, the virus is at a dangerous level, according to our health department. We start school in August, not in September. They need to wait until the curve goes down in their area, as opening now, during a spike, doesn't make sense. Ultimately here the headteacher is a little like the captain of a ship, they manage their schools as they see fit and can only be ordered to open by an act of parliament. The board of governors could remove the head for failing to do so, but they cannot in most cases direct him or her to do so. I heard the virus being referred to as the "great revealer" the other day. One revelation is that it's been much easier for middle class parents during the pandemic, with laptops and larger houses and fast broadband connections. Not just in terms of education but with the lockdowns in general. A working class family living in a flat in the UK will have less space to educate a child, less access to outdoor spaces for the child to play in and enjoy fresh air, less access to broadband connections and less access to and comfort with the technology that allows kids to be educated at home. That applies to other people beyond parents. The poorer you are, the less likely you are to be able to sit in your house working from home, the less likely you are to be able to enjoy fresh air, the less likely you are to be able to order food and supplies online, the less likely you are to be able to afford masks and hand sanitiser, the more likely you are to need to use public transport and the more likely you are to work in a place where contact with others is harder to avoid. I had about a month of having to go to work, and it worried me. I had no choice. If I had a job where there were loads of other people milling about, no garden to relax in on a nice day, no car and a gaggle of kids to deal with, I can see how that might cause issues with a person's mental health. If, like many poorer families I also had an elderly relative living with me, and kids home from school with no end in sight, I could see how that might cause long term damage. Our school district provided a free hotspot device for students without home wi-fi, thanks to partnership with ATT, last spring to complete the year. Each student in our district has a laptop at school to use, and they assigned those to go home, if they didn't have a computer at home . guess we are a bit more prepared than most districts. Some parents opted for a non-digital distance learning curriculum, which I'm not sure how or what that involved.
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Post by riotgirl on Jul 10, 2020 5:57:33 GMT -6
Our School district has lost a lot of students over the years. It's kind of a depressed economic area. And, I am concerned that not starting school is going to result in a lot of kids just opting for a cyber academy versus their local public school. The cyber academies are already organized and ready to go versus our school who just purchased chrome books and now are racing to design a curriculum around that. Many parents are just going to say why bother when the wheel was already invented and they can just do that. Makes sense to me, I would. You also have to remember that schools do a lot more than just plop information in front of students. Schools deal face to face with many social issues, poverty, hunger, mental health referrals and so forth. So yes, these cyber academies can provide instruction and that is all that they are legally bound to do versus the public school that has to manage these issues, place special needs students out of district at times and so forth. This is going to harm our schools if we cannot find a way to face to face instruction.
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flan327
No Life At All
Third Strike..Banned
100%
Posts: 7,410
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Post by flan327 on Jul 10, 2020 6:30:58 GMT -6
Which is why I love the district that I work for.
They try to consider the WHOLE student...not just his or her academic performance.
Still, it's hard to burden teachers with another responsibility.
flan
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Post by griobhtha on Jul 10, 2020 8:07:29 GMT -6
Our School district has lost a lot of students over the years. It's kind of a depressed economic area. And, I am concerned that not starting school is going to result in a lot of kids just opting for a cyber academy versus their local public school. The cyber academies are already organized and ready to go versus our school who just purchased chrome books and now are racing to design a curriculum around that. Many parents are just going to say why bother when the wheel was already invented and they can just do that. Makes sense to me, I would. You also have to remember that schools do a lot more than just plop information in front of students. Schools deal face to face with many social issues, poverty, hunger, mental health referrals and so forth. So yes, these cyber academies can provide instruction and that is all that they are legally bound to do versus the public school that has to manage these issues, place special needs students out of district at times and so forth. This is going to harm our schools if we cannot find a way to face to face instruction. The virtual school is part of the District and they can attend several classes at the campus if they want. If we can put some , that can, into online learning, it frees up space in overcrowded schools. They have what my GS calls Connect classes 3 times a week, where he can see and talk to teachers and others in the class. They also have PE classes and field trips for the virtual learners. By all means we need brick and mortar schools, but at a safer time, then in the middle of a pandemic spike.
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Post by riotgirl on Jul 11, 2020 6:04:54 GMT -6
Our School district has lost a lot of students over the years. It's kind of a depressed economic area. And, I am concerned that not starting school is going to result in a lot of kids just opting for a cyber academy versus their local public school. The cyber academies are already organized and ready to go versus our school who just purchased chrome books and now are racing to design a curriculum around that. Many parents are just going to say why bother when the wheel was already invented and they can just do that. Makes sense to me, I would. You also have to remember that schools do a lot more than just plop information in front of students. Schools deal face to face with many social issues, poverty, hunger, mental health referrals and so forth. So yes, these cyber academies can provide instruction and that is all that they are legally bound to do versus the public school that has to manage these issues, place special needs students out of district at times and so forth. This is going to harm our schools if we cannot find a way to face to face instruction. The virtual school is part of the District and they can attend several classes at the campus if they want. If we can put some , that can, into online learning, it frees up space in overcrowded schools. They have what my GS calls Connect classes 3 times a week, where he can see and talk to teachers and others in the class. They also have PE classes and field trips for the virtual learners. By all means we need brick and mortar schools, but at a safer time, then in the middle of a pandemic spike. Our school is not overcrowded. We have lost enrollment. And, we aren't a rich District that can blink and put the entire curriculum online.
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Post by griobhtha on Jul 11, 2020 6:26:26 GMT -6
The virtual school is part of the District and they can attend several classes at the campus if they want. If we can put some , that can, into online learning, it frees up space in overcrowded schools. They have what my GS calls Connect classes 3 times a week, where he can see and talk to teachers and others in the class. They also have PE classes and field trips for the virtual learners. By all means we need brick and mortar schools, but at a safer time, then in the middle of a pandemic spike. Our school is not overcrowded. We have lost enrollment. And, we aren't a rich District that can blink and put the entire curriculum online. I'm in AL, and not in a rich school district and we are overcrowded. They started some years ago getting every student a laptop for use at school and they started online virtual school at same time, only had high school at first and each year added a grade. Now we have virtual for k-12. Too bad more school districts didn't think ahead and do the same thing.
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Post by riotgirl on Jul 11, 2020 7:36:51 GMT -6
Our school is not overcrowded. We have lost enrollment. And, we aren't a rich District that can blink and put the entire curriculum online. I'm in AL, and not in a rich school district and we are overcrowded. They started some years ago getting every student a laptop for use at school and they started online virtual school at same time, only had high school at first and each year added a grade. Now we have virtual for k-12. Too bad more school districts didn't think ahead and do the same thing. It's not always about thinking ahead. Schools don't have unlimited funds. Choices have to be made. Every year there are more costs added
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